"Where the Grass is Greener", an article appearing in the 8/18/07 issue of the Economist hits home in Peoria. The article describes Cerritos, Ca. as a community of glorious history, old money and beauty. "It's a terribly unremarkable place on the way to Disneyland, yet this community of 55,000 has become remarkable thanks to superb management and geographical location. It is both a bedroom community and an economic engine. It has far more jobs than working residents. And it has leased it's land not sold it's land so that a future stream of revenue is guaranteed."
Like many American cities, it has many amenities such as new schools, libraries, museums,etc., "Of course, other cities have built parks, performing art centers,fancy libraries while struggling financially. The key to Cerritos success may be the timing of these investments. Cities such as Cleveland and Baltimore (and Peoria) have poured money into museums and other grand projects in the vain hope these would lure businesses and young, creative folks. Cerritos began by building pipelines, "links", and roads, then moved on to business parks, policing and schools, including Californians best high school. Only when it was rolling in money did it break out the "titanium".
Local officials attribute the cities success to fiscal discipline and the ability to follow a long range plan. That, in turn, is a result of it's political culture. Cerritos has a tradition of powerful. long-serving city managers, to whom local politicians frequently defer. As Laura Lee, the mayor explains, "There are so many things, we as elected officials, do not understand." Voters seem to agree as a 2002 poll showed that 96% said they were satisfied with the provision of public service.
The last census shows an ethnic mix: 21% white, 7% black, 11% Latino. 12% mixed race, approximately 15% Chinese and Korean, 11% Filipino, and 6% Indian.
With no offence intended, the City of Peoria is surely observing Peoria County, our capable administrator is starting his 8th year and he has 17 board members plus a County Board Chairman to whom he must report . The administrator and all, including elected officials and all employees are responsible for the fiscal responsiblity of a $122 million budget. We sometimes disagree but I have seen next to no micro-management by board members.
Moody's Investor Services recently upgraded Peoria County's Bond rating to "excellent". This Aa3 rating reflects sound financial operations, a growing and diversified economy and a moderate debt burden.
Might be a good time to form a committee of common sense, smaller egos people and those with a history of building INCLUSIVE networks to start studying the possibility of uni-government. However, our past history of failure to combine simple services, such as the Election Commissions, would indicate the odds of this happening are "slim or none".
Striving immigrants are the cause and consequence of the cities public schools, pupils who speak in-adequate English do better in math than than those who speak English. Whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics and others have not formed ghettos but are intermixed.
The article concludes "It is in dull sprawling places with good schools, of the sort ridiculed by Hollywood and urban planners, that America comes together."
Wednesday, January 23, 2008
Wednesday, January 09, 2008
Peoria Caught in the Middle
"Caught in the Middle" is a new book by Richard C. Longworth is a new book worth your time reading. Quoting from yesterday's WSJ, "Like the "inner" peace and "bi-partisan reform," the phrase American heartlands so vaguely wistful that it is rendered nearly meaningless. This is painful honest book with little room for sentimentality. Longworth says that heartland workers are torpid, poorly trained and resistant to change. Politicians and bureaucrats are narrows-minded, territorial and selfish. Farmers are addicted to subsidies and beholden to megacorporations."
In one chapter, Longworth visits Eldon, Iowa where artist Grant Wood once spotted a simple white house with an arched Gothic window. His painting of the house and occupants became famous as "American Gothic". Longworth says the house today still stands but most everything in Eldon is collapsing. The population dropped from 2000 to 975, the railroad closed and about the only things left is a Casey's, a pizzia place and a donut shop.
He continues "There are towns with rescue plans underway-plans to salvage housing, invest in new industries (In Peoria, we invest in new enhancements paying slightly above minimum wages) save the schools and so on, usually through some combination of of subsidy, tax breaks and legislation.Some plans will no doubt help but they probably will not reverse the overarching trend."
Longworth continues by touting Chicago as the place where things are happening. "But the Chicago model, even if it imitable, leaves little room for a healthy middle class." His book "calls for an end to the competition that pits county vs. county, city against city, and state vs. state.
He see "High speed rails, newspapers with strong editorial voices and a consortium of universities that will bring leaders in business, government and academia to solve REGIONAL problems, as it were, collectively."
But he is clear-eyed enough to recognize that solutions are a remote possibility. He says "The heartland doesn't live there anymore."
Middle Illinois will not work regionally for the obvious reasons given above. Peoria Riverfront Museum is a prime example.
In one chapter, Longworth visits Eldon, Iowa where artist Grant Wood once spotted a simple white house with an arched Gothic window. His painting of the house and occupants became famous as "American Gothic". Longworth says the house today still stands but most everything in Eldon is collapsing. The population dropped from 2000 to 975, the railroad closed and about the only things left is a Casey's, a pizzia place and a donut shop.
He continues "There are towns with rescue plans underway-plans to salvage housing, invest in new industries (In Peoria, we invest in new enhancements paying slightly above minimum wages) save the schools and so on, usually through some combination of of subsidy, tax breaks and legislation.Some plans will no doubt help but they probably will not reverse the overarching trend."
Longworth continues by touting Chicago as the place where things are happening. "But the Chicago model, even if it imitable, leaves little room for a healthy middle class." His book "calls for an end to the competition that pits county vs. county, city against city, and state vs. state.
He see "High speed rails, newspapers with strong editorial voices and a consortium of universities that will bring leaders in business, government and academia to solve REGIONAL problems, as it were, collectively."
But he is clear-eyed enough to recognize that solutions are a remote possibility. He says "The heartland doesn't live there anymore."
Middle Illinois will not work regionally for the obvious reasons given above. Peoria Riverfront Museum is a prime example.
Peoria School District @150 Too High New School Costs
When in Nashville, Tenn. a couple of weeks ago, I picked up a copy of the Metropolitan Nashville Public Schools Annual report for 2006-2007. What really caught my interest was the following: Facilities: Building for the future. New elementary school capacity 600. Cost $6.7 million. New Middle Arts Magnet School capacity 600 students. Cost $10.7 million. New elementary school in South Nashville capacity 500 students. Cost $7 million. New middle school opened in August 2006 capacity 1000 students. Cost $11 million.
Compare with proposed new Glen Oak School $21 million and up.
Compare with most of Florida's salaries for administrators and the lower salary being offered for city admistrator where Randy Oliver has made application.
Something is badly wrong in Peoria and I don't see much positive change on the horizons.
Peoria leadership, come out of denial and accept facts because facts don't change because of wishes. We are overpriced and sprawling further North adding more costs to run the city, lack enough living wage paying jobs, graduating too many kids without needed skills, turning out thousands of young people each year who do not know how to work (and many don't think they have to; boy are they wrong) and I do not see that changing fast enough for oue future needs.
Compare with proposed new Glen Oak School $21 million and up.
Compare with most of Florida's salaries for administrators and the lower salary being offered for city admistrator where Randy Oliver has made application.
Something is badly wrong in Peoria and I don't see much positive change on the horizons.
Peoria leadership, come out of denial and accept facts because facts don't change because of wishes. We are overpriced and sprawling further North adding more costs to run the city, lack enough living wage paying jobs, graduating too many kids without needed skills, turning out thousands of young people each year who do not know how to work (and many don't think they have to; boy are they wrong) and I do not see that changing fast enough for oue future needs.
Tuesday, January 08, 2008
Peoria Riverfront Museum Historical Review
This historical information is taken from a JS article dated 4/8/03. I quote "The $60million Lakeview Regional Museum proposed for the Sears block would do more to revitalize Downtown than new stores, offices, condominiums and hotels according to an impact analysis conducted by a Northbrook based economic development consulting firm. The study suggested it would cost $15 million to build an 110 room hotel, a scenario possible only if the city gave the land away. Part of the rationale is that the economy is flat and vacancy rates for downtown hotels, etc., are relatively high."
"I don't see that as a compelling argument," Mayor Ransburg said of the report. "They're not building a case for a museum on the Sears block. I'm disappointed....I think the report was useless."
The study states a new museum could attract 200,000 to 250,000 visitors a year to generate an estimated $900,000 to $1.9 million in spending at and around the museum. That equates to around $18,000 to $38,000 in local sales taxes.
A museum would also have the economic impact of supporting the marketing and recruiting efforts of Caterpillar with on on-site, interactive visitor Center expected to accommodate 20,000 who travel each year to Caterpillar Headquarters.
"The museum is the paradigm shift for Downtown. We have to get the museum firmly seated on the Sears block and let it be the gem it can be," said Lakeview CEO Jim Richerson.
The study say, "But the museum does have it's challenges. There are world class museums located just 150 miles away; Peoria is not yet recognized as an entertainment and culture center for tourists; there is limited population and employment growth. People of this region are more likely to attend a sporting event than visit a museum. It also depends on the museums ability to market itself as a package of attractions because as the report notes, outside of major cities, few tourists come into cities solely to attend a museum."
Several things stand out to me in this 2003 study paid for by the Heartland Partnership. I note that by 2006 the projected attendance has risen from 200,000-250,000 to a flat 360,000 per year. Also the amount of visitors spending has increased from approximately $900,000-1.9 million to $14 million. The CVT projected attendance jumped from 20,000 to 120,000. Also the museum has shrunk from Regional to Peoria with recently stated efforts to seek commitments from Tazewell and Woodford Counties. The museum has also been scaled back in size.
While the museum on the riverfront was being debated, a hotel was being conceived directly across the river, a 225 room Embassy Suites, now open to compete with the "flat" market in Peoria. And with the hotel comes an attached Convention Center. More competition. Maybe the good looking tax paying Embassy Suites in East Peoria might look pretty good right now siting on Peoria's riverfront with easy access to the Civic Center and downtown restaurants
It may be said that East Peoria had to give the developer an "arm and leg" but Peoria is not to bad in that game either. Except that the arm and leg they are giving such as Midtown Plaza and the gambling boat they gave to East Peoria plus all the incentives we have been giving for years in the way of TIF's, Enterprise Zone and the almost outright gift of land to the Park Districts RiverPlex that has never been able to generate enough revenue to pay the principal and interest on the huge bond the PPD sold to help build this recreation Center in direct competition to tax-paying local enterprise. The valuable riverfront land swapped for land near Carver Center (the ecently rebuilt baseball field also lies unused adjacent to the useless land just as the city funded Southside Library will be some day.)
By most reports, the economy is flattening out and at some point it will as it usually does, hit the Peoria area.
Peoria has developed a reputation of building it and so others can come visit, use it and just pay admissions and leave. Our Peoria City population is flat and the County shows a meager growth of maybe 3,000 in the past 10 years.
If you feel I may be pessimistic, you probably aren't invested in the local baseball club or the stock market or you don't pay property taxes.
"I don't see that as a compelling argument," Mayor Ransburg said of the report. "They're not building a case for a museum on the Sears block. I'm disappointed....I think the report was useless."
The study states a new museum could attract 200,000 to 250,000 visitors a year to generate an estimated $900,000 to $1.9 million in spending at and around the museum. That equates to around $18,000 to $38,000 in local sales taxes.
A museum would also have the economic impact of supporting the marketing and recruiting efforts of Caterpillar with on on-site, interactive visitor Center expected to accommodate 20,000 who travel each year to Caterpillar Headquarters.
"The museum is the paradigm shift for Downtown. We have to get the museum firmly seated on the Sears block and let it be the gem it can be," said Lakeview CEO Jim Richerson.
The study say, "But the museum does have it's challenges. There are world class museums located just 150 miles away; Peoria is not yet recognized as an entertainment and culture center for tourists; there is limited population and employment growth. People of this region are more likely to attend a sporting event than visit a museum. It also depends on the museums ability to market itself as a package of attractions because as the report notes, outside of major cities, few tourists come into cities solely to attend a museum."
Several things stand out to me in this 2003 study paid for by the Heartland Partnership. I note that by 2006 the projected attendance has risen from 200,000-250,000 to a flat 360,000 per year. Also the amount of visitors spending has increased from approximately $900,000-1.9 million to $14 million. The CVT projected attendance jumped from 20,000 to 120,000. Also the museum has shrunk from Regional to Peoria with recently stated efforts to seek commitments from Tazewell and Woodford Counties. The museum has also been scaled back in size.
While the museum on the riverfront was being debated, a hotel was being conceived directly across the river, a 225 room Embassy Suites, now open to compete with the "flat" market in Peoria. And with the hotel comes an attached Convention Center. More competition. Maybe the good looking tax paying Embassy Suites in East Peoria might look pretty good right now siting on Peoria's riverfront with easy access to the Civic Center and downtown restaurants
It may be said that East Peoria had to give the developer an "arm and leg" but Peoria is not to bad in that game either. Except that the arm and leg they are giving such as Midtown Plaza and the gambling boat they gave to East Peoria plus all the incentives we have been giving for years in the way of TIF's, Enterprise Zone and the almost outright gift of land to the Park Districts RiverPlex that has never been able to generate enough revenue to pay the principal and interest on the huge bond the PPD sold to help build this recreation Center in direct competition to tax-paying local enterprise. The valuable riverfront land swapped for land near Carver Center (the ecently rebuilt baseball field also lies unused adjacent to the useless land just as the city funded Southside Library will be some day.)
By most reports, the economy is flattening out and at some point it will as it usually does, hit the Peoria area.
Peoria has developed a reputation of building it and so others can come visit, use it and just pay admissions and leave. Our Peoria City population is flat and the County shows a meager growth of maybe 3,000 in the past 10 years.
If you feel I may be pessimistic, you probably aren't invested in the local baseball club or the stock market or you don't pay property taxes.
Friday, January 04, 2008
Peoria Riverfront Museum
First, let me correct a statement made by Mark Johnson, Project Manager for the Cat Visitors Center on my blog site. He indicated I could be excused for not knowing what Museum supporters stated before the full County Board meeting last month. I did miss out on what Ray LaHood, Dave Koehler,Jim Vergon and Jim Richerson said but I had heard their pitch before. I did hear what Sid Banwart, a Cat VP, Mark Johnson, I had also listened to Mark Johnson previously, Dan Silverthorn, and Dave Leitch had to say. I had heard Leitch before on the museum subject. Silverthorn was doing his job. New building means new jobs.
A year or so ago, Vergon and Richerson pitched each County Board member individually. My session was over an hour. Less than two months ago, I was asked to hear Byron DeHaan and Jim Richerson presentation on the building and operating budget I have a copy of "projected operating projections". That briefing lasted approx. 90 minutes. Jim Richerson is doing his job. He is the Museum Director.
In the summer of 2005, I visited the Mississippi River Museum at Dubuque, Iowa. You can review my blog of 6/11/05 covering my visit of this Museum listed by the Peoria Museum Board as a comparative to what could happen in Peoria.
Every city I visit, I make a point of visiting their Museums. It is only within the last four or five years, I have started to ask questions about how they are funded year in and year out. My most recent visit was to the Tennessee State Museum at Nashville. There is no entry fee and it is funded by both private sources and public taxation spread out over the entire state. I have recently visited the City Museum in St. Louis which is owned and operated privately. I have also visited the Putnam Museum in the Quad Cities. I understand that museum is considering combining with other enhancements to relocate to the riverfront. I believe they have a sizeable endowment. The State of Iowas has been very aggressive with their funding in promoting more attractions and more tourists to their state.
I also gather facts about other museums thru various sources; mainly the media.
I have more than a passing knowledge of museums.
Three museums were listed by our museum board as examples of county support for museums. One, the National Mississippi River Museum and Aquarium is described in the handout to Peoria County Board members, Dubuque County, Iowa -2003 $51 million for Port of Dubuque Project, including 27% of $188 million project; the Museum was $57 million. As explained to me by Development Director Terri Goodmann, $50 million of the $57 million came from the Iowa Department of Tourism to promote lagging growth of tourism in the State of Iowa. One million came from the county. Ms. Goodmann pointed out the the "must" hierarchy of attractions as recommended by the experts as follows: Z00/Aquarium combination, Children's Center, Science Center, Living History and Art.
I followed up last year to see how this Museum was doing in attendance. Ms. Goodmann had moved to a new position and did not have figures. Jerry Ensler returned my call today and indicated the museum has been well received and expansion is planned as the gambling boat had donated one of their buildings along with a couple of million dollars. The expansion planned is approximately $40 million and they were in the process of raising funds but for a number of reasons, mainly financial uncertainty, the expansion has not yet started. They are currently putting together another fund drive.
Attendance last year was 225,000 down from their opening year 2003 of 301,000. The feeling is if they add more attractions, they will boost attendance. Admittance fees are $9.75 for adults down. Full information about membership and fees can be found at www.rivermuseum.com.
Wichita Exploration Place that is also used by the museum promoters as an example of what Peoria could be opened in 2000. It drew 400,000 visitors in its first year but was down to 250,000 visitors by 2002 according to an article in the JS dated January 20,2002.
I have closely followed the overall vision of the Peoria Civic Federation (now called the CEO Roundtable. I understand the the Museum is probably the major linchpin in the original plan; new Ball Park, $32 million zoo expansion, the RiverPlex, Civic Center expansion, new WTVP building, Children's Playhouse, new Zoo headquarters, (planned destination to be Lakeview Museum off University) Renaissance Park with it's now open Innovation Center, major hospital expansions, Peoria Next Heart of Peoria structured development, warehouse district development, $100 MILLION PLUS for new District #150 schools and $35 million for City Libraries and the in progress $100 million dollar plus Bradley University expansion.
How have some of these visions panned out? My $50,000.00 investment in the Peoria Chiefs Baseball team 14 years ago have not paid me one dollar in dividends; my stock has been for sell since 1998 and I haven't had one offer. I'm told we are close to breakeven this year despite the presence of Ryan. The Riverplex projected to be six figures in the black each year has instead operated in the red since completion. The fitness center alone lost $606,000 last year. Reliable sources say the $32 million zoo expansion didn't raise the funds necessary for completion. Since the current zoo loses approximately $400,000 a year, expect larger losses in upcoming years. The PPD annual budget is up to near $50 million and expected to increase after the zoo is completed and headquarters relocated again from the old Knoxville Highway Department Headquarters.
Gateway Building and One Technology Plaza did not pan out as planned, nor did many of those businesses who originally invested in the riverfront such as Damon's. The YWCA is asking for more money as is WTVP. Globe Energy has asked the County for understanding as they apparently struggle to get the financing promised and FireFly appears to be still in the development stage. Keystone has had their problems and a number of small business have either gone out of business or declared bankruptcy.
Property Taxes are at record highs (the fair value on my home was increased $46,000.00 despite no improvements and no visit by the assessor.
The vision I have always understood. Attendance has not met projections and funding sources have been disappointing.
On 7/10/07, the JSEB stated that the Peoria Riverfront Museum was launching another
major fund raising drive. A local executive felt that $16 or $17 million could be expected. Jim Vergon said the next six months should make us or break us. Right now, none of the County Board members know where the Federal Treasury $20 million New Tax credit program stands. If that comes thru and another $16 million is raised in private funding, the building part of the project should be complete without any additional funds from the County.
The JSEB says that if Caterpillar took a self defeating attitude they are probably talking about the county who wasn't aware of the need for $24 million shortfall until three months ago) they wouldn't be where they are today in the business world.(in the past few months, Caterpillar stocked is down from a high last year of $86 to $68 today) I need to remind some that Caterpillar got there by using private, not public tax dollars, funds for the great majority of their growth. Also the newspaper says the Caterpillar Visitors Center would be a viable project. Few disagree. However, Caterpillar says they will be responsible for their own profits of losses. Not true for the PRM if Peoria County gets into what Mike Phelan calls "the museum business" and if the Museum Board's projections don't turn out, we will be in it. The operating plan already calls for an annual $500,000 fund raising drive.
My opinion is that I will continue to listen and evaluate facts. If the museum committee wishes to take the shortfall in funding to the people by referendum, I have no problem. I will insist that all the facts be known to the voter before they vote. This blog is a step in that direction.
In the meantime, all should note that a "mild market is expected for Peoria for 2008 as projected by a Manpower Employment Survey, 10% below the State of Illinois average. I have more info that I will add later. As usual, any comments, factual corrections, etc. may be made on this site.If you are following the stock market you will note that Cat stock is down 5 consecutive days as a large number of analysts believe we are on the edge of a recession.
Thank you for reading as this decision rests not with the Peoria County Board but with the Museum Committee and the voting public.
A year or so ago, Vergon and Richerson pitched each County Board member individually. My session was over an hour. Less than two months ago, I was asked to hear Byron DeHaan and Jim Richerson presentation on the building and operating budget I have a copy of "projected operating projections". That briefing lasted approx. 90 minutes. Jim Richerson is doing his job. He is the Museum Director.
In the summer of 2005, I visited the Mississippi River Museum at Dubuque, Iowa. You can review my blog of 6/11/05 covering my visit of this Museum listed by the Peoria Museum Board as a comparative to what could happen in Peoria.
Every city I visit, I make a point of visiting their Museums. It is only within the last four or five years, I have started to ask questions about how they are funded year in and year out. My most recent visit was to the Tennessee State Museum at Nashville. There is no entry fee and it is funded by both private sources and public taxation spread out over the entire state. I have recently visited the City Museum in St. Louis which is owned and operated privately. I have also visited the Putnam Museum in the Quad Cities. I understand that museum is considering combining with other enhancements to relocate to the riverfront. I believe they have a sizeable endowment. The State of Iowas has been very aggressive with their funding in promoting more attractions and more tourists to their state.
I also gather facts about other museums thru various sources; mainly the media.
I have more than a passing knowledge of museums.
Three museums were listed by our museum board as examples of county support for museums. One, the National Mississippi River Museum and Aquarium is described in the handout to Peoria County Board members, Dubuque County, Iowa -2003 $51 million for Port of Dubuque Project, including 27% of $188 million project; the Museum was $57 million. As explained to me by Development Director Terri Goodmann, $50 million of the $57 million came from the Iowa Department of Tourism to promote lagging growth of tourism in the State of Iowa. One million came from the county. Ms. Goodmann pointed out the the "must" hierarchy of attractions as recommended by the experts as follows: Z00/Aquarium combination, Children's Center, Science Center, Living History and Art.
I followed up last year to see how this Museum was doing in attendance. Ms. Goodmann had moved to a new position and did not have figures. Jerry Ensler returned my call today and indicated the museum has been well received and expansion is planned as the gambling boat had donated one of their buildings along with a couple of million dollars. The expansion planned is approximately $40 million and they were in the process of raising funds but for a number of reasons, mainly financial uncertainty, the expansion has not yet started. They are currently putting together another fund drive.
Attendance last year was 225,000 down from their opening year 2003 of 301,000. The feeling is if they add more attractions, they will boost attendance. Admittance fees are $9.75 for adults down. Full information about membership and fees can be found at www.rivermuseum.com.
Wichita Exploration Place that is also used by the museum promoters as an example of what Peoria could be opened in 2000. It drew 400,000 visitors in its first year but was down to 250,000 visitors by 2002 according to an article in the JS dated January 20,2002.
I have closely followed the overall vision of the Peoria Civic Federation (now called the CEO Roundtable. I understand the the Museum is probably the major linchpin in the original plan; new Ball Park, $32 million zoo expansion, the RiverPlex, Civic Center expansion, new WTVP building, Children's Playhouse, new Zoo headquarters, (planned destination to be Lakeview Museum off University) Renaissance Park with it's now open Innovation Center, major hospital expansions, Peoria Next Heart of Peoria structured development, warehouse district development, $100 MILLION PLUS for new District #150 schools and $35 million for City Libraries and the in progress $100 million dollar plus Bradley University expansion.
How have some of these visions panned out? My $50,000.00 investment in the Peoria Chiefs Baseball team 14 years ago have not paid me one dollar in dividends; my stock has been for sell since 1998 and I haven't had one offer. I'm told we are close to breakeven this year despite the presence of Ryan. The Riverplex projected to be six figures in the black each year has instead operated in the red since completion. The fitness center alone lost $606,000 last year. Reliable sources say the $32 million zoo expansion didn't raise the funds necessary for completion. Since the current zoo loses approximately $400,000 a year, expect larger losses in upcoming years. The PPD annual budget is up to near $50 million and expected to increase after the zoo is completed and headquarters relocated again from the old Knoxville Highway Department Headquarters.
Gateway Building and One Technology Plaza did not pan out as planned, nor did many of those businesses who originally invested in the riverfront such as Damon's. The YWCA is asking for more money as is WTVP. Globe Energy has asked the County for understanding as they apparently struggle to get the financing promised and FireFly appears to be still in the development stage. Keystone has had their problems and a number of small business have either gone out of business or declared bankruptcy.
Property Taxes are at record highs (the fair value on my home was increased $46,000.00 despite no improvements and no visit by the assessor.
The vision I have always understood. Attendance has not met projections and funding sources have been disappointing.
On 7/10/07, the JSEB stated that the Peoria Riverfront Museum was launching another
major fund raising drive. A local executive felt that $16 or $17 million could be expected. Jim Vergon said the next six months should make us or break us. Right now, none of the County Board members know where the Federal Treasury $20 million New Tax credit program stands. If that comes thru and another $16 million is raised in private funding, the building part of the project should be complete without any additional funds from the County.
The JSEB says that if Caterpillar took a self defeating attitude they are probably talking about the county who wasn't aware of the need for $24 million shortfall until three months ago) they wouldn't be where they are today in the business world.(in the past few months, Caterpillar stocked is down from a high last year of $86 to $68 today) I need to remind some that Caterpillar got there by using private, not public tax dollars, funds for the great majority of their growth. Also the newspaper says the Caterpillar Visitors Center would be a viable project. Few disagree. However, Caterpillar says they will be responsible for their own profits of losses. Not true for the PRM if Peoria County gets into what Mike Phelan calls "the museum business" and if the Museum Board's projections don't turn out, we will be in it. The operating plan already calls for an annual $500,000 fund raising drive.
My opinion is that I will continue to listen and evaluate facts. If the museum committee wishes to take the shortfall in funding to the people by referendum, I have no problem. I will insist that all the facts be known to the voter before they vote. This blog is a step in that direction.
In the meantime, all should note that a "mild market is expected for Peoria for 2008 as projected by a Manpower Employment Survey, 10% below the State of Illinois average. I have more info that I will add later. As usual, any comments, factual corrections, etc. may be made on this site.If you are following the stock market you will note that Cat stock is down 5 consecutive days as a large number of analysts believe we are on the edge of a recession.
Thank you for reading as this decision rests not with the Peoria County Board but with the Museum Committee and the voting public.
Saturday, December 29, 2007
Mark Widmer 12/29/07
On December 9 at approximately 12:15 PM, my only son was killed instantly in a single vehicle auto accident on Zimmerman Road in Woodford County. His obituary can be found at www.h-p-w.com, December 12 archives, on Hinchliff Mortuary site.
I will write about my son at a later date. While he found, and sometimes seemingly made this world and his life difficult, he was a kind soul, loved by all his family. He deserves to have more of the contributions he made published somewhere. I plan to do so on this site.
My thanks will never be enough for all of those who supported my family and his mother Dee, in our times of great sorrow.
I do not plan to do much blogging until February. In the meantime, I wish all of you, friend, reader, acquaintance or other, a great 2008.
I will write about my son at a later date. While he found, and sometimes seemingly made this world and his life difficult, he was a kind soul, loved by all his family. He deserves to have more of the contributions he made published somewhere. I plan to do so on this site.
My thanks will never be enough for all of those who supported my family and his mother Dee, in our times of great sorrow.
I do not plan to do much blogging until February. In the meantime, I wish all of you, friend, reader, acquaintance or other, a great 2008.
Thursday, December 06, 2007
Museum Funding Questions
Dear Peoria County Board Representative:
The Peoria County Board will soon decide whether to ask its residents if they are willing to fund a downtown Peoria museum by means of an increase in their property and/or sales tax(es). Before the Board makes this decision, I would like its members to get answers to the following questions:
If the option of an additional sales tax is chosen, just what items/services would be subject to that tax? Food? Medicines? Toilet paper?
Since county residents will be forced to pay for the museum by way of taxes, will parking for and admission to the museum be free for all Peoria County residents---or will they have to pay for it a SECOND time if they choose to visit it?
If you are going to tax residents for a museum, why not add additional taxes to bail out other struggling cultural institutions? The Children's Museum and WTVP come to mind.
It's my understanding that taxes are levied to pay for ESSENTIAL services and institutions that benefit the majority of the people being taxed---schools, police and fire protection, road crews, etc. Just what is ESSENTIAL about an IMAX theater and a tribute to someone whose “humor” consisted of using 4-letter words to describe his illegal drug use?
In these times of rising grocery prices, rising gasoline prices, and rising CILCO rates, is it really ethical to ask low-income single mothers, seniors trying to live on Social Security, and others living below the poverty line to pay for a museum?
I don't know about other people, but if I have any "extra" money lying around, I'll give it to The Salvation Army to help feed, shelter, and clothe the needy of Peoria County rather than help pay for an UNWANTED museum in downtown Peoria.
The Peoria County Board will soon decide whether to ask its residents if they are willing to fund a downtown Peoria museum by means of an increase in their property and/or sales tax(es). Before the Board makes this decision, I would like its members to get answers to the following questions:
If the option of an additional sales tax is chosen, just what items/services would be subject to that tax? Food? Medicines? Toilet paper?
Since county residents will be forced to pay for the museum by way of taxes, will parking for and admission to the museum be free for all Peoria County residents---or will they have to pay for it a SECOND time if they choose to visit it?
If you are going to tax residents for a museum, why not add additional taxes to bail out other struggling cultural institutions? The Children's Museum and WTVP come to mind.
It's my understanding that taxes are levied to pay for ESSENTIAL services and institutions that benefit the majority of the people being taxed---schools, police and fire protection, road crews, etc. Just what is ESSENTIAL about an IMAX theater and a tribute to someone whose “humor” consisted of using 4-letter words to describe his illegal drug use?
In these times of rising grocery prices, rising gasoline prices, and rising CILCO rates, is it really ethical to ask low-income single mothers, seniors trying to live on Social Security, and others living below the poverty line to pay for a museum?
I don't know about other people, but if I have any "extra" money lying around, I'll give it to The Salvation Army to help feed, shelter, and clothe the needy of Peoria County rather than help pay for an UNWANTED museum in downtown Peoria.
Monday, December 03, 2007
Peoria Riverfront Museum Fund Raising Progress
To answer a comment posted on this site in regard to the estimated cost of the museum and where the money was to come from I will pass on some of the information previously made public.
The original amount considered for the Regional Museum was $65,000,000 with $12,000,000 coming from the Federal Government, $12,000,000 from the State of Illinois and $6,000,000 from local governments, all taxpayers’ money. The full amounts of these, Federal, State and County financing appear at the present time not to be forthcoming. Only $600,000 from local governments has been pledged to my knowledge. $35,000,000 was expected to come from private sources.
Cat plans to invest at least $50,000,000 on Museum Square if the rest of the funding for the Riverfront Museum can be secured. This is a very generous offer even though many in the community feel that Cat should go ahead with their Visitors Center and the Riverfront Museum added when there are more pledges from both the private and public sector. That time could come when some of the current large capital projects are completed and are at least coming close to breaking even, the recession clouds lifted and property taxes stabilized.
To date, there is a $24,900,000 shortfall of funds raised/pledged. The Cat Visitors Center and Cat parking is $42,200,000 pledged by, I believe, the Caterpillar Foundation.
$5,000,000 for parking is coming thru TIF and the Department of Transportation, also taxpayer’s money.
The City donation of the land and other concessions including the Water Street upgrade add up to somewhere between $8 and $12 million depending on which city source is talking. I believe the City Manager is saying much more than that has already been given.
The Museum Board says $24,000,000 is still needed for the project to proceed. Estimated revenues and operating costs are projected to offset each other at around $4,100,000 on projected attendance of 360,000 yearly of both the Museum and the Cat Visitors center. Approximately 280,000 of these visitors are projected to come from outside the local communities.
To my knowledge, no surrounding county, village or city has made any significant pledges. To my knowledge the Casino in East Peoria has not made any pledge and there are indications they may not have been approached.
The full County Board will listen to input on December 13th at 6:00 approximately, 4th floor of the County Courthouse. Some board members have openly expressed that they will not support a property tax or a sales tax. However, governmental bodies have been known to change their minds.
Using the Public Building Commission is not acceptable to me or many other board members.
Most of you know that I support a museum providing the fund raisers can raise the funds to both build and operate a fiscally responsible museum year in and year out. That it would be an asset to the community, there can be no doubt. Especially with the two facilities connected. I believe the Caterpillar Visitors Center would need to make up their own losses or bank their own profits. I am not sure that this information has been made clear to the public; whether profits or losses would be Caterpillar’s responsibility or shared.
Please feel free to correct my numbers or statements if you are qualified to do so. Thank you.
I have been told that if the Museum Square does not proceed, the city will need to reimburse Caterpillar for demolition costs and buy back the land from the parties involved???
The original amount considered for the Regional Museum was $65,000,000 with $12,000,000 coming from the Federal Government, $12,000,000 from the State of Illinois and $6,000,000 from local governments, all taxpayers’ money. The full amounts of these, Federal, State and County financing appear at the present time not to be forthcoming. Only $600,000 from local governments has been pledged to my knowledge. $35,000,000 was expected to come from private sources.
Cat plans to invest at least $50,000,000 on Museum Square if the rest of the funding for the Riverfront Museum can be secured. This is a very generous offer even though many in the community feel that Cat should go ahead with their Visitors Center and the Riverfront Museum added when there are more pledges from both the private and public sector. That time could come when some of the current large capital projects are completed and are at least coming close to breaking even, the recession clouds lifted and property taxes stabilized.
To date, there is a $24,900,000 shortfall of funds raised/pledged. The Cat Visitors Center and Cat parking is $42,200,000 pledged by, I believe, the Caterpillar Foundation.
$5,000,000 for parking is coming thru TIF and the Department of Transportation, also taxpayer’s money.
The City donation of the land and other concessions including the Water Street upgrade add up to somewhere between $8 and $12 million depending on which city source is talking. I believe the City Manager is saying much more than that has already been given.
The Museum Board says $24,000,000 is still needed for the project to proceed. Estimated revenues and operating costs are projected to offset each other at around $4,100,000 on projected attendance of 360,000 yearly of both the Museum and the Cat Visitors center. Approximately 280,000 of these visitors are projected to come from outside the local communities.
To my knowledge, no surrounding county, village or city has made any significant pledges. To my knowledge the Casino in East Peoria has not made any pledge and there are indications they may not have been approached.
The full County Board will listen to input on December 13th at 6:00 approximately, 4th floor of the County Courthouse. Some board members have openly expressed that they will not support a property tax or a sales tax. However, governmental bodies have been known to change their minds.
Using the Public Building Commission is not acceptable to me or many other board members.
Most of you know that I support a museum providing the fund raisers can raise the funds to both build and operate a fiscally responsible museum year in and year out. That it would be an asset to the community, there can be no doubt. Especially with the two facilities connected. I believe the Caterpillar Visitors Center would need to make up their own losses or bank their own profits. I am not sure that this information has been made clear to the public; whether profits or losses would be Caterpillar’s responsibility or shared.
Please feel free to correct my numbers or statements if you are qualified to do so. Thank you.
I have been told that if the Museum Square does not proceed, the city will need to reimburse Caterpillar for demolition costs and buy back the land from the parties involved???
Thursday, November 29, 2007
Peoria Museum - Finance Committee Action
After considerable debate and outside input, the Finance Committee will present to the full board a resolution in support of the concept of a museum on the riverfront. The full board will discuss this resolution at the next full board meeting on December 13. No decision was made on making up the $24 million shortfall faced by the museum fund raising committee.
There does not appear to be enough support on the County Board to commit to any type of taxation without further debate, discussion and input..
There does not appear to be enough support on the County Board to commit to any type of taxation without further debate, discussion and input..
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
Illegal Immigrants
I am totally opposed to illegal immigration. I have no problem with having citizens of this country or those applying for citizenship being taught a second language. But only AFTER they have learned to speak English.
Find my blogs dated 5/01/07, 6/22/07 and 6/30/07 on my laments as to what our politicians and others are doing to this country.
You may use this blog to add to, refute, pass on or make recommendations.
Subject: Very Interesting Facts
From a California school teacher - - -
'As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic
and income levels.
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. ( OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK )
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them 'Putas' whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care
etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses
to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about ' politicalcorrectness' that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase 'cheap labor' is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as 'cheap labor.'
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for
$5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an 'earned income credit' of up to $3,200 free.
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps.
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches
at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are o r become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material. He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/h our in benefits.
Working Americans
are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
Please pass along with your comments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database
Find my blogs dated 5/01/07, 6/22/07 and 6/30/07 on my laments as to what our politicians and others are doing to this country.
You may use this blog to add to, refute, pass on or make recommendations.
Subject: Very Interesting Facts
From a California school teacher - - -
'As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:
I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic
and income levels.
Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens, Huntington Park, etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.
Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. ( OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK )
I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)
I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them 'Putas' whores and throwing things that the teachers were in tears.
Free medical, free education, free food, day care
etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements ?
To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.
Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.
We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster because we won't have the guts to enforce it Does anyone in their right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?
It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses
to assimilate , and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about ' politicalcorrectness' that we don't have the will to do anything about it.
If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.
CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.
Consumers don't want expensive produce.
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.
But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase 'cheap labor' is a myth , a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as 'cheap labor.'
Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for
$5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an 'earned income credit' of up to $3,200 free.
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.
He qualifies for food stamps.
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.
His children get free breakfasts and lunches
at school.
He requires bilingual teachers and books.
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.
If they are o r become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material. He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/h our in benefits.
Working Americans
are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash clean-up.
Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people!
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER PARTY. 'AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'
Please pass along with your comments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database
Monday, November 19, 2007
Surface Transportation Board Ruling
The STB ruled that Kellar Railway will remain a railway. Now we will see whether the trail promoters will ask whoever runs the railway if they will allow a trail to run beside the rails. I’m told it is not possible to have both but I suspect the trail could leave the railway path detouring down a streets or sidewalks and rejoin the railway path at a juncture further up or down..
For a more complete story on the STB ruling and other information regarding the ruling, visit the blog site of C.J.Summer.
For a more complete story on the STB ruling and other information regarding the ruling, visit the blog site of C.J.Summer.
Friday, November 16, 2007
Rails and Trails - Information to Ponder
This article was forwarded to me by a rail supporter. I recently voted to send a resolution to our Congressmen to support the conversion of what is commonlly know as the Kellar Railway to a trail PROVIDING that this valuable pathway be "railbanked". The County Board was assured this branch would be railbanked by pro-trail advocate and developer Dave Maloof. Subsquent followup finds that this is not the case.
Merle Widmer 11/16/07
Re: TRAILS TO RAILS - the difference between RRers and bikers.
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:45 am ((PST))
Looks like everybody here realizes the common need for alternate forms of
> > transportation (specifically, trucks) and we don't get all crazy when a rail line is
> > converted to recreational trail use.
> > Why then don't bikers / hikers ("It's all about meeeee!") get it when an
> > abandoned rail line comes back as a needed economic-development tool?
> > There's a world of difference in thinking between our two camps, it
> > appears.
> > ===========================
> > Some of these trail users don't care about the 'RIGHTS' of business owners. All they care about is one thing, that they can use a TRAIL to bike or walk. I would tell these people who are up in arms - 'Ok, you employ these people if you DO NOT want businesses to expand', but I bet
> they don't have a job! :)
> > Currently there is a case of trails going back to rails in Wisconsin.
> > In the new TRAINS magazine, the Wisconsin Southern is working with
> > the state of Wisconsin to reactivate a former rail line. Now a trail, the railroad is experiencing
> > growth in the area, which last saw train traffic in the late 1950s. Apparently what is
> > happening is WSOR rr has some present customers who want to expand their
> > businesses but need rail service in a new area.
> > The line runs from Monroe to Mineral Point and a branch would lead to Shullsburg which was
> > abandoned in th very early 60's The balance of the line was abandoned in the
> > mid to late 80's. Pecatonica Rail Transit Commission has already given this project it
> > blessing and forwarded it on to the state. It will be a $45 million project over 65 miles with 15
> > miles of ROW to be repurchased and done over a three year period.
> > The bridges have to be rebuilt and that could be done to accommodate a trail. This trail is a
> > crap hole for ATV'ers and horse people and they are really up in arms over the
> > entire thing and have been very vocal in their opposition to the railroad taking our trail.
> >Trail Users -- GROW UP!!!!! Jobs = tax growth = tax decreases...
>
>
Re: TRAILS TO RAILS - the difference between RRers and bikers.
> Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))
> It seems like there is a lot of hostility against rails to trails amongst this group. I think there are
> two sides to each story so let me share a little. My parents live on the NS line between Buffalo and Chicago (old Nickel Plate line next to Lake Erie) and they would rather have trains running in their backyard vs unknown people walking and running behind their yard. I know a lot of people in the neighborhood have similar feelings. On the other hand I live in Pittsburgh so I have
> access to the Montour Trail (old Montour Railroad) and the Great Allegheny Passage (former WM line between Pittsburgh and Cumberland MD). Both are first class trails, I have enjoyed many hours of exersize and beautiful scenery riding the trail. The trail is also bringing tons of economic growth to the areas along the trail. Many small towns are coming back to life with Bed and Breakfasts, bike shops and eateries. These are towns that if the railroad rebuilt through there would just be a pass-through location. The other thing I love about the trails is that they preserve the railroad history. There are old stations along the trail that have been restored and have museums in them Meyersdale). I would much rather an old rail line be turned into a trail that the public
> can use over it reverting back to the original land owners so the railroad history can be destroyed. Many of the rails to trails groups are very preservation minded. I know on the Great Allegheny Passage they have moved a bridge and are restoring it to original condition instead of just building a bike bridge. Some trails have rail cars along side, and many still have signals too. In many places the abandoned railroad is never coming back, because either the industry that it used to
> support is gone, or there are better lines nearby. In those cases I think turning them into trails is a better use than hoping that one day the glory of the rails will be back.
> As with everything a middle ground should be sought out. I know in some areas they've actually located a trail next to an active mail line. I'd love to ride by bike and watch passing trains.
> > It seems like there is a lot of hostility against rails to trails amongst this group. I think there are
> > two sides to each story so let me share a little. Nate, I'll second a lot of your comments - check out this out from Greg Harrison's new abandoned rails website:
>
> http://www.abandonedrails.com/article.asp?id=292
>
> I ride the East Bay Bike trail typically a couple of times a week, doing usually between 18 & 30 (or more) miles as a workout; seeing the forlorn-looking track alongside the bike trail inspired me to start doing some historical research on the line whose former roadbed it's built on - the New Havens's (later Providence & Worcester's) former Providence, Warren & Bristol branch.
>
> It's far better to see an old right-of-way preserved as a rail trail then to get totally obliterated by property development; an excellent example is the Cape Rail Trail in MA (which I also ride during the
> summer months). The Cape Rail Trail starts in South Dennis, MA & runs up to South Wellfleet; the roadbed was originally the Cape Cod Central, then became Old Colony & later New Haven, running originally all the way out to Provincetown at the tip of Cape Cod. When abandonment of the line began in the 1960's, the stretch from Provincetown down to South Wellfleet was abandoned first. (This was LONG before the rails-to-trails movement). I've tried following the old roadbed from the north end of the bike trail in South Wellfleet up all the way to Provincetown on "Google Earth" & Microsoft's "Live Local"; I've actually explored some of the roadbed (beyond the bike trail) on my bike. From Wellfleet going northward ("eastbound" from Boston), a sizable percentage of the roadbed has been TOTALLY obliterated by property development on the Cape. The stretch which is
> the existing Cape Rail Trail was abandoned a bit later & was one of the first rails-to-trails conversions in this area. (Surprisingly, the roadbed for the Chatham branch, abandoned even earlier in 1937, was never developed, and was paved as an extension to the Cape Rail Trail in the last couple of years).
>
> Regarding the original thread on the protests of ATV'ers & horse riders on the trail-back-to-rail in Wisconsin, was this ACTUALLY a "legitimate" rails-to-trails conversion, or did the ATV'ers & horse
> riders just "claim" the abandoned right-of-way as "their own"? (I frequently see ATV's on the abandoned former New Haven roadbed between Whittenton Junction in Taunton & Stoughton, MA; this roadbed may see rails RETURNED to it by the MBTA as a restoration of commuter rail
> service to Fall River (where I live) & New Bedford). My personal observation is that a high percentage of ATV'er's have little regard for anything other than getting their "jollies"; I've seen them on the Cape Rail Trail, for example, where gas-powered vehicles are expressly FORBIDDEN! A lot of the legitimate rail trails are developed under "rail-banking" clauses, which stipulate that the right-of-way CAN revert to railroad use, if needed.
Merle Widmer 11/16/07
Re: TRAILS TO RAILS - the difference between RRers and bikers.
Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:45 am ((PST))
Looks like everybody here realizes the common need for alternate forms of
> > transportation (specifically, trucks) and we don't get all crazy when a rail line is
> > converted to recreational trail use.
> > Why then don't bikers / hikers ("It's all about meeeee!") get it when an
> > abandoned rail line comes back as a needed economic-development tool?
> > There's a world of difference in thinking between our two camps, it
> > appears.
> > ===========================
> > Some of these trail users don't care about the 'RIGHTS' of business owners. All they care about is one thing, that they can use a TRAIL to bike or walk. I would tell these people who are up in arms - 'Ok, you employ these people if you DO NOT want businesses to expand', but I bet
> they don't have a job! :)
> > Currently there is a case of trails going back to rails in Wisconsin.
> > In the new TRAINS magazine, the Wisconsin Southern is working with
> > the state of Wisconsin to reactivate a former rail line. Now a trail, the railroad is experiencing
> > growth in the area, which last saw train traffic in the late 1950s. Apparently what is
> > happening is WSOR rr has some present customers who want to expand their
> > businesses but need rail service in a new area.
> > The line runs from Monroe to Mineral Point and a branch would lead to Shullsburg which was
> > abandoned in th very early 60's The balance of the line was abandoned in the
> > mid to late 80's. Pecatonica Rail Transit Commission has already given this project it
> > blessing and forwarded it on to the state. It will be a $45 million project over 65 miles with 15
> > miles of ROW to be repurchased and done over a three year period.
> > The bridges have to be rebuilt and that could be done to accommodate a trail. This trail is a
> > crap hole for ATV'ers and horse people and they are really up in arms over the
> > entire thing and have been very vocal in their opposition to the railroad taking our trail.
> >Trail Users -- GROW UP!!!!! Jobs = tax growth = tax decreases...
>
>
Re: TRAILS TO RAILS - the difference between RRers and bikers.
> Date: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:27 am ((PST))
> It seems like there is a lot of hostility against rails to trails amongst this group. I think there are
> two sides to each story so let me share a little. My parents live on the NS line between Buffalo and Chicago (old Nickel Plate line next to Lake Erie) and they would rather have trains running in their backyard vs unknown people walking and running behind their yard. I know a lot of people in the neighborhood have similar feelings. On the other hand I live in Pittsburgh so I have
> access to the Montour Trail (old Montour Railroad) and the Great Allegheny Passage (former WM line between Pittsburgh and Cumberland MD). Both are first class trails, I have enjoyed many hours of exersize and beautiful scenery riding the trail. The trail is also bringing tons of economic growth to the areas along the trail. Many small towns are coming back to life with Bed and Breakfasts, bike shops and eateries. These are towns that if the railroad rebuilt through there would just be a pass-through location. The other thing I love about the trails is that they preserve the railroad history. There are old stations along the trail that have been restored and have museums in them Meyersdale). I would much rather an old rail line be turned into a trail that the public
> can use over it reverting back to the original land owners so the railroad history can be destroyed. Many of the rails to trails groups are very preservation minded. I know on the Great Allegheny Passage they have moved a bridge and are restoring it to original condition instead of just building a bike bridge. Some trails have rail cars along side, and many still have signals too. In many places the abandoned railroad is never coming back, because either the industry that it used to
> support is gone, or there are better lines nearby. In those cases I think turning them into trails is a better use than hoping that one day the glory of the rails will be back.
> As with everything a middle ground should be sought out. I know in some areas they've actually located a trail next to an active mail line. I'd love to ride by bike and watch passing trains.
> > It seems like there is a lot of hostility against rails to trails amongst this group. I think there are
> > two sides to each story so let me share a little. Nate, I'll second a lot of your comments - check out this out from Greg Harrison's new abandoned rails website:
>
> http://www.abandonedrails.com/article.asp?id=292
>
> I ride the East Bay Bike trail typically a couple of times a week, doing usually between 18 & 30 (or more) miles as a workout; seeing the forlorn-looking track alongside the bike trail inspired me to start doing some historical research on the line whose former roadbed it's built on - the New Havens's (later Providence & Worcester's) former Providence, Warren & Bristol branch.
>
> It's far better to see an old right-of-way preserved as a rail trail then to get totally obliterated by property development; an excellent example is the Cape Rail Trail in MA (which I also ride during the
> summer months). The Cape Rail Trail starts in South Dennis, MA & runs up to South Wellfleet; the roadbed was originally the Cape Cod Central, then became Old Colony & later New Haven, running originally all the way out to Provincetown at the tip of Cape Cod. When abandonment of the line began in the 1960's, the stretch from Provincetown down to South Wellfleet was abandoned first. (This was LONG before the rails-to-trails movement). I've tried following the old roadbed from the north end of the bike trail in South Wellfleet up all the way to Provincetown on "Google Earth" & Microsoft's "Live Local"; I've actually explored some of the roadbed (beyond the bike trail) on my bike. From Wellfleet going northward ("eastbound" from Boston), a sizable percentage of the roadbed has been TOTALLY obliterated by property development on the Cape. The stretch which is
> the existing Cape Rail Trail was abandoned a bit later & was one of the first rails-to-trails conversions in this area. (Surprisingly, the roadbed for the Chatham branch, abandoned even earlier in 1937, was never developed, and was paved as an extension to the Cape Rail Trail in the last couple of years).
>
> Regarding the original thread on the protests of ATV'ers & horse riders on the trail-back-to-rail in Wisconsin, was this ACTUALLY a "legitimate" rails-to-trails conversion, or did the ATV'ers & horse
> riders just "claim" the abandoned right-of-way as "their own"? (I frequently see ATV's on the abandoned former New Haven roadbed between Whittenton Junction in Taunton & Stoughton, MA; this roadbed may see rails RETURNED to it by the MBTA as a restoration of commuter rail
> service to Fall River (where I live) & New Bedford). My personal observation is that a high percentage of ATV'er's have little regard for anything other than getting their "jollies"; I've seen them on the Cape Rail Trail, for example, where gas-powered vehicles are expressly FORBIDDEN! A lot of the legitimate rail trails are developed under "rail-banking" clauses, which stipulate that the right-of-way CAN revert to railroad use, if needed.
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